Personally I have noticed mod becoming a distant echo of what I believed it to be. The simplicity and natural mod look and attitude has drifted into everything mod stood against. Of course this is simply my opinion and I could be wrong, so please join in and let your own opinions flow into a sensible and interesting debate:D

From the picture above we can see a basic mod look, nothing over posed and is a simple masculine example of lads who are mods. This look doesn't look dated and doesn't look out of date if worn now, nothing fancy dress about it, these are mods not ravers, tweenies, dandy's !! 

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  • Yeah its gone from being progressive to regressive.  Shame really, so many people stuck in the past it's the antithesis of modernism.

  • Spot on Emily. And Crombies. 

  • Following recent discussions about early modernism, there are frequent references to those who were 'there'. I put 'there' in commas because I believe 'there' was a period of time. I referred to a picture posted by Mickey Modern, which I felt depicted the style that I associated with that time. 

    There are other pictures on Mickey's page of guys with mohair suits. I would not have worn a mohair suit, I could have afforded one but that would have been a bit visually ostentatious for me personally. I understand Mickey was or is an administrator of the Facebook group Original Modernists 1959/66 (apologies to Mickey if I'm mistaken about that). By the images available on Facebook, it also appears that in the early sixties, some people (I never saw them at the time) were dressing pretty outlandishly, and this is being designated modernism by people online, however loosely.

    From memory, I think I wore an eighteen oz serge suit in dark blue, or similar. If any of my mates had turned up dressed in, let us say, an ultra-flamboyant manner, I would not at the time have recognized this as having anything to do with modernism. As a young man wanting to look the business, I wouldn't have refused to be seen out with them, but would have insisted that we went somewhere neither of us would be recognized. This indicates that there were scenes very different from my own, being enjoyed by other young people at the same time, about which I knew very little, despite the fact I was out and about in London and Soho at the time.

    Looking at Original Modernists 1959/66, I can find relatively little on there relating directly to 'my' scene. So I think when we talk about people who were 'there', 'there' was probably hundreds or thousands of different people in different places with their own styles, different tastes and different venues. But to me, it was always about modern jazz. As of yet, I have seen no posts on MG by anyone who went to Scott's, Marquee and Flamingo when they were jazz clubs.

    When I referred to the picture of the King's Arms, Old Kent Road, 1962, eagle-eyed fashion expert Retroman opined that it just looked like some blokes out on Saturday night having a drink. 

    I think my old mucka Len Peters would agree with me that if you had looked in most pubs in Upper Holloway in 1962 the majority of the people would not have looked like that. Much to his relief. 

    However, what Retroman's comment has highlighted to me is just how much the early modernists have influenced the way people dress over the following decades , which can be seen to this day. 

    We talk about the Teds being the first home-grown UK youth movement/style. Ted emerged in the middle-fifties. I have failed to find any single source for the start of the Edwardian style. Clothes rationing  only ended in March 1949: that is to say, unless you had clothing coupons in your ration book, you literally could not buy clothes. This will be hard for people who did not live through it to imagine, but if you needed a jacket or some trousers etc, you could not go into a shop and just buy them unless you had the required amount of coupons. Each garment would require the stipulated number of coupons.  So it is not surprising that it was five years or so before new indigenous styles developed.

    I am playing with the idea of doing some in-depth research into the emergence of modernism. I was 'there'  - and the more I look at the available information, the less I seem to know... 

    You see what you've made me do - I've gone off on one!


    • Good post John It would be nice for you to research and explain to the old mods and I how the modern Jazzers became and evolved into a group of scooter riding lads who hit the news at Clacton, Hastings & Brighton ? I wasn't there so maybe I shouldn't even offer any views so I won't, but you wasn't at Brighton with the MODS so you don't know them or what they was influenced by. So please do research and tell the mod generation how you and your jazz pals influenced the MODs .

    • Do you mean Yobs at Brighton? and it's " you weren't" not "you wasn't" Sorry to be a pedant but sometimes to standard of English just drops too far. lol

    • Pilgrim,

      please excuse my grammer I am bound to get it wrong,


      Yob,   A person who engages in antisocial behavior/behaviour and/or drunkenness


      Hands up, that's was us to a tee, was that wrong ? was I any different to thousands of other lads at the time, I dont think so, we were definately anti social and to my memory either drunk or stoned most of the time, but I am not too sure about that term Yob it sounds offensive but maybe it's just a word that people want to categorize people they never met and have no real understanding off.


      Told you my grammer was crap,

    • Yobs are the lads who smash the shop window " cus its a laugh init" start a fight " cus you looked at my pint" are sick all over the bus after ten pints of cooking lager. And those who destroy a hard working families business and then smile about it in court after. They are with us now and were with us then. I dont know your past Derek, so only you know the truth.

    • If that's what your interpretaion is of Yob then it did not and does not belong to my generation, we did many things but none of the things you mention.

      All mods  were not bad, please don't assume that we were mindless thugs, we just retaliated to our surroundings and family conditions, we demanded something new and better for ourselves.

      Perhaps if we had not gone down that route and had to endure the hardships we would not be able to understand our kids needs and be more tolerrant with them, I know I personaly have become much more forgiving and am the better man and father/grandfather for it.

      I dont drink or take drugs anymore, I am proud of that but still have that rebellious nature that I retain from my youth, that will always be with me,


    • Good morning Mr G

      You seem to have started the weekend in fine combative form, Long may it continue.

      I got back late from the coast last night and thought I had missed something when I saw the posts of Pilgrim and yourself. I even sought guidance from someone, I understand better this morning.

      I suppose today if you went to the coast with your family, (I hope you and they are all well) and a mass punch up of young people took place on the beach,you would not be best pleased. I think that is an aspect of '64 that seems to have no place in the mythology.

      I 'think possibly that is where Pilgrim is coming from.Obviously Pilgrim can speak for himself and I do not seek to speak for him.

      I note you have spoken of your charitable works for children in the past, so the Derek Gardner of today, who we have all come to know and love, is not the DG of of yesteryear.

      There is no question of an impending hug so you can relax.

      Don't lose that rebellious nature Gardner, I mentioned Dylan Thomas the other day. It provoked a very strong reaction, , nonetheless I can tell you that I take inspiration from 'Do not go gentle into that good night'.

      I could be clutching at straws though.

    • John, good morning, back to the coast again ?

      I do not and will not apologize for my past on here, I may regret some things but only I have to live with that, it's how I and many others were. 

      What is not often mentioned is the relationship of early ' mods' and their parents who just came through the horrors of war and how we were surrounded by talk of unbelievable atrocities, perhaps that rubbed off and the English fighting spirit was passed down

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